Jossa lahjoitukset menevät / where do the donations go

[ex-jw-est]

UK land register: http://www.upload.ee/download/4097559/e ... 200-hl.pdf

Sales brochure: http://www.upload.ee/download/4097560/7 ... 000561.pdf

[Filippos]

Ei toimi nuo linkit. Those links don't work.

[ex-jw-est]

OK, here goes again.

UK land register: http://www.tunnistaja.ee/safehouse/Regi ... 200-hl.pdf
Sales brochure: http://www.tunnistaja.ee/safehouse/LUC1000561.pdf

[B.Kaktus]

Ensin: Voisiko joku vahvistaa tuon International Bible Students -yhdistyksen suhteen Vartiotorniseuraan? Kun minulle ainakin hämärää onko se siitä eriytynyt firma vai samaa taloa.

Muutoin kuitenkin, vajaan miljoonan punnan rantatalo mikä käy mahtavasta edustusasunnosta ihmetyttää kyllä, eihän muka rahapulaisen Vartiotorniseuran luulisi tuollaista maailmallista tekopyhyyttä ja hurskailua harrastavan... Mikä motiivi tuollaisella huvilalla on saarnaamistyössä jossa ei rahoja käytetä luksuselämään? Vai onko tuo yhdistys ylipäätään Seuran alayhdistys vai kokonaan omansa JTeistä eriytynyt?

Jos joku fiksu vastaisi, koitin kyllä googletella mutta silti epäselvää.. Kiitos etukäteen

[ex-jw-est]

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatio ... ssociation
UK Charity Commission: http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/sea ... txt=216647

They have said that this will be used as office for the English->Welsh translation team. This is a very lame excuse, as for 1 million GBP one could rent suitable office rooms for thousand years.

[Vieraas]

Muutoin kuitenkin, vajaan miljoonan punnan rantatalo mikä käy mahtavasta edustusasunnosta ihmetyttää kyllä, eihän muka rahapulaisen Vartiotorniseuran luulisi tuollaista maailmallista tekopyhyyttä ja hurskailua harrastavan... Mikä motiivi tuollaisella huvilalla on saarnaamistyössä jossa ei rahoja käytetä luksuselämään?

Edit: piti erikseen kaivaa tietoa, jota tässä avauksessa ei ollut. Luulin, että seura myy sen, mutta väitetäänkin ostaneen. Pitänee tutkia tarkemmin.

[Markku Meilo]

Ensin: Voisiko joku vahvistaa tuon International Bible Students -yhdistyksen suhteen Vartiotorniseuraan? Kun minulle ainakin hämärää onko se siitä eriytynyt firma vai samaa taloa.

En ole tallentanut linkkiä tähän, mutta näin se meni ja menee mun tietoni mukaan edelleen, paitsi käsittääkseni nykyään IBSA toimii ainoastaan Brittein saarilla:

The International Bible Students Association was incorporated by the Watch Tower Society in 1914, up until that time the various congregations were known as simply Bible Students or International Bible Students of [City, State].

When Pastor Russell incorporated the name IBSA for the European work, he told all Bible Student congregations not to use the name IBSA when advertising their meetings/studies.

So the congregations adopted the name Associated Bible Students of [City, State] so that there would be no confusion. If you look at the older Watch Tower journals, you'll see listings for Associated Bible Students meetings, etc.

This shows that the congregations in Russell's time were autonomous or self governed, there was no direct connect to the Society, the Society did not dictate to thjem what they should and shouldn't do, the various congregati9ons were simply in harmony with the Society so long as they published what they felt was truth.

When the Judge took over he attempted to take over the congregations by forming a hierarchy, there was protest and the schisms began, those who gave up their Christian freedom became International Bible Students those he abandoned the IBSA/WTS remained Associated Bible Students.

The Society used three main corporations in their witnessing and publishing efforts.
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society [Parent corporation in PA]

People's Pulpit Association [New York branch 1909, changed to Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York in 1940s]

International Bible Students Association [European branch, 1914]

The Congregations went by the name Associated Bible Students

So when you see the IBSA name that is the publishing corporation, not the individual Bible Student congregations.

[ex-jw-est]

Yeah, I looked into it and there's no doubt, IBSA is WT and the translation team of 8 (!) is already working in the building.

So they bought £1M waterfront villa to acommodate an 8-member translation team. So, gather your fortunes in heaven so that the Watchtower Corporation can gather theirs on Earth!

More information here: http://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/2 ... etails_on/

[Vieraas]

So they bought £1M waterfront villa to acommodate an 8-member translation team. So, gather your fortunes in heaven so that the Watchtower Corporation can gather theirs on Earth!

Pytinki on kieltämättä sekä sijainniltaan että tyypiltään hyvin epätodennäköinen toimistotiloiksi. Tietoa näyttää tippuvan jatkuvasti lisää, joten kiinnostavaa nähdä olisiko tässä nyt ensimmäinen kiva kesämökki yhtiön miehille. Tähän mennessähän asiasta ei kuitenkaan ole todisteita.

Asiallisesti ottaen talo ei kyllä ole luksusta nähnytkään, maisemaa lukuunottamatta. Paitsi 7 Päivää -lehden standardilla arvioiden. Siinä julkaisussahan jokainen perämoottorilla varustettu vene on ökyjahti.

ex-jw-est: As for the topic "where do the donations go" itself, this of course is a much larger issue and would deserve a debate of its own.

All in all the organisation seems to be moving from printing business into real estate business. This is one thing to take into account when these kinds of deals pop up in the media. Watchtower needs some kind of business model to keep the wheels moving.

Another profound change is the new US legislation (or more precisely New York legislation) that will come into effect July 1st. Some of the changes include yearly audits and personal legal responsibility for key personnel working for charitable organizations like Watchtower. This would certainly include members of the Governing Body. Their asses are certainly on the line now.

http://bit.ly/1veW90K

One could speculate that the tighter rules (plus the much discussed potential abuse lawsuits) could lead to something like like Watchtower moving their assets aboard. Interesting times.

Edit: typo
Edit: lähde lisätty

[ex-jw-est]

All in all the organisation seems to be moving from printing business into real estate business. This is one thing to take into account when these kinds of deals pop up in the media. Watchtower needs some kind of business model to keep the wheels moving.

Absolutely. When I started to research the Watchtower about a year ago, It became apparent to me pretty soon that the organization has moved through three business models:

1) printing/publishing 1880s ... 1940s
2) faith-based donations pyramide scheme 1940s ... 1990s
3) real-estate flip-flop 2000s ... 2014

We all understand why these phases changed. With the advent of television, radio and library network, people stopped paying good amounts for literature.

Then came the pyramide scheme, but it only works while you have strong growth in developed areas like the US and EU (mainly based on wealthy pensioneers) and the members strongly believe in the thing, i.e. your mind-control is very strong.

Then with the advent of widespread Internet access and English skills, the pyramide stopped to grow and iron grip on members mind control slipped, so the ones that are still in do not donate much and there's no growth either.

To make a congregation of 100 people donate net $100000 takes how much time? 10s of years maybe. But if you deploy 100 "volountary" people on a 2-week building project and if the average salary would be $500 a week, then you will end up with $100000 savings on workforce in just 10 business days. And the subjects would even not have to possess anything, they don't need special skills and they don't even need to stay with the organization for too long.

[Vieraas]

All in all the organisation seems to be moving from printing business into real estate business. This is one thing to take into account when these kinds of deals pop up in the media. Watchtower needs some kind of business model to keep the wheels moving.

Absolutely. When I started to research the Watchtower about a year ago, It became apparent to me pretty soon that the organization has moved through three business models:

1) printing/publishing 1880s ... 1940s
2) faith-based donations pyramide scheme 1940s ... 1990s
3) real-estate flip-flop 2000s ... 2014

Well put. However, the literature must also have formed a substantial part of the income until the 80's. This went on until the "simplification" arrangement (also called fear of taxes), when no compensation for literature was required any more, at least in countries like US and Finland. Not sure about other countries.

Even after that people were encouraged to give a donation when placing literature in door-to-door work. Don't know if that is still the case. Anyway, now even this "literature against voluntary donations" arrangement must be drying up due to digitalization. What's left is the real estate flip-flopping and dwindling donations.